Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 2126

Declaration of Susan Estrich in Support of 2013 MOTION for Judgment as a Matter of Law, New Trial and/or Remittitur Pursuant to Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 50 and 59, 2054 Brief, 2053 Opposition/Response to Motion, filed bySamsung Electronics America, Inc.(a New York corporation), Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., Samsung Telecommunications America, LLC. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 1 to the Estrich Declaration, # 2 Exhibit 2 to the Estrich Declaration, # 3 Exhibit 3 to the Estrich Declaration, # 4 Exhibit 4 to the Estrich Declaration, # 5 Exhibit 5 to the Estrich Declaration, # 6 Exhibit 6 to the Estrich Declaration, # 7 Exhibit 7 to the Estrich Declaration, # 8 Exhibit 8 to the Estrich Declaration, # 9 Exhibit 9 to the Estrich Declaration, # 10 Exhibit 10 to the Estrich Declaration, # 11 Exhibit 11 to the Estrich Declaration, # 12 Exhibit 12 to the Estrich Declaration, # 13 Exhibit 13 to the Estrich Declaration, # 14 Exhibit 14 to the Estrich Declaration, # 15 Exhibit 15 to the Estrich Declaration, # 16 Exhibit 16 to the Estrich Declaration, # 17 Exhibit 17 to the Estrich Declaration, # 18 Exhibit 18 to the Estrich Declaration, # 19 Exhibit 19 to the Estrich Declaration, # 20 Exhibit 20 to the Estrich Declaration, # 21 Exhibit 21 to the Estrich Declaration, # 22 Exhibit 22 to the Estrich Declaration, # 23 Exhibit 23 to the Estrich Declaration, # 24 Exhibit 24 to the Estrich Declaration, # 25 Exhibit 25 to the Estrich Declaration, # 26 Exhibit 26 to the Estrich Declaration, # 27 Exhibit 27 to the Estrich Declaration, # 28 Exhibit 28 to the Estrich Declaration, # 29 Exhibit 29 to the Estrich Declaration, # 30 Exhibit 30 to the Estrich Declaration, # 31 Exhibit 31 to the Estrich Declaration)(Related document(s) 2013 , 2054 , 2053 ) (Maroulis, Victoria) (Filed on 11/9/2012)

Estrich Declaration
Exhibit 3

556

1

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

2

NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

3

SAN JOSE DIVISION

4
5
6

APPLE INC., A CALIFORNIA
CORPORATION,

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8
9
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12
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PLAINTIFF,
VS.
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO.,
LTD., A KOREAN BUSINESS
ENTITY; SAMSUNG
ELECTRONICS AMERICA,
INC., A NEW YORK
CORPORATION; SAMSUNG
TELECOMMUNICATIONS
AMERICA, LLC, A DELAWARE
LIMITED LIABILITY
COMPANY,

14
DEFENDANTS.

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C-11-01846 LHK
SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA
AUGUST 3, 2012
VOLUME
PAGES 556-930

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16
17

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
BEFORE THE HONORABLE LUCY H. KOH
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

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19
20

APPEARANCES ON NEXT PAGE

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER: LEE-ANNE SHORTRIDGE, CSR, CRR
CERTIFICATE NUMBER 9595

557

1

A P P E A R A N C E S:

2

FOR PLAINTIFF
APPLE:

3
4

MORRISON & FOERSTER
BY: HAROLD J. MCELHINNY
MICHAEL A. JACOBS
RACHEL KREVANS
425 MARKET STREET
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

94105

5
6
7
8

FOR COUNTERCLAIMANT WILMER, CUTLER, PICKERING,
APPLE:
HALE AND DORR
BY: WILLIAM F. LEE
60 STATE STREET
BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS 02109

9

BY: MARK D. SELWYN
950 PAGE MILL ROAD
PALO ALTO, CALIFORNIA

10
11

13

QUINN, EMANUEL, URQUHART,
OLIVER & HEDGES
BY: CHARLES K. VERHOEVEN
50 CALIFORNIA STREET, 22ND FLOOR
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 94111

14

BY:

12

FOR THE DEFENDANT:

94304

16

VICTORIA F. MAROULIS
KEVIN P.B. JOHNSON
555 TWIN DOLPHIN DRIVE
SUITE 560
REDWOOD SHORES, CALIFORNIA

17

BY:

15

18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

94065

MICHAEL T. ZELLER
WILLIAM C. PRICE
JOHN B. QUINN
865 SOUTH FIGUEROA STREET
10TH FLOOR
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90017

558

1

INDEX OF WITNESSES

2

PLAINTIFF'S

3

PHILIP SCHILLER
DIRECT EXAM BY MR. MCELHINNY
(RES.)
CROSS-EXAM BY MR. PRICE
REDIRECT EXAM BY MR. MCELHINNY
RECROSS-EXAM BY MR. PRICE

P. 666
P. 717
P. 721

SCOTT FORSTALL
DIRECT EXAM BY MR. MCELHINNY
CROSS-EXAM BY MR. JOHNSON
REDIRECT EXAM BY MR. MCELHINNY
RECROSS-EXAM BY MR. JOHNSON

P.
P.
P.
P.

JUSTIN DENISON
AS-ON CROSS-EXAM BY MR. LEE
AS-ON DIRECT EXAM BY MR. QUINN

P. 790
P. 839

4
5

P. 594

6
7
8
9

724
760
784
787

10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

599

1

WAS AMAZING.

2

WERE SO EXCITED ABOUT THIS UPCOMING EVENT AT MAC

3

WORLD.

4

Q

5

ANNOUNCEMENT?

WHAT WAS THE INITIAL REACTION TO THE

6
7

MR. PRICE:
HONOR.

8
9

PEOPLE HAD BEEN WAITING SO LONG AND

I'M GOING TO OBJECT, YOUR

VAGUE, BY WHOM, WHEN?
THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

BY MR. MCELHINNY:

10

Q

WHAT WAS THE MEDIA REACTION TO THE

11

ANNOUNCEMENT?

12

A

13

WOULD EXPECT, THE RANGE OF THE REACTION WAS

14

EVERYTHING YOU COULD IMAGINE FROM EXCITEMENT ABOUT

15

THIS BREAKTHROUGH PRODUCT TO DOUBT THAT APPLE COULD

16

SUCCEED AT THIS OR DO A GOOD JOB AT IT.

17

Q

18

THAT YOU -- AFTER SEEING THE ANNOUNCEMENTS,

19

EXPRESSED DOUBT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IT WOULD BE --

20

THE IPHONE WOULD BE A SUCCESSFUL PRODUCT?

WE HAD A HUGE AMOUNT OF PRESS, AND AS YOU

CAN YOU GIVE US EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE WHO SAID

21
22

MR. PRICE:

OBJECT TO RELEVANCE AND

THE COURT:

WHAT WAS THE QUESTION AGAIN?

HEARSAY.

23
24

BY MR. MCELHINNY:

25

Q

CAN YOU GIVE US EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE WHO

600

1

EXPRESSED DOUBT ABOUT WHETHER THE IPHONE WOULD BE A

2

SUCCESSFUL PRODUCT.

3

IT'S A SECONDARY CONSIDERATION.

4

THE COURT:

5

LAY A FOUNDATION.

6

I UNDERSTAND.

YOU NEED TO

HEARSAY.

7

OTHERWISE IT IS ELICITING

GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

8

QUESTION.

9

REPHRASE YOUR

BY MR. MCELHINNY:

10

Q

AS THE HEAD OF MARKETING, DID YOU BECOME AWARE

11

THAT PEOPLE EXPRESSED DOUBT AS TO THE SUCCESS OF

12

THE IPHONE PRODUCT?

13

A

YES, ABSOLUTELY.

14

Q

CAN YOU GIVE US AN EXAMPLE?

15

A

WE HAD MANY PRESS REPORTS, FROM THE PRESS,

16

FROM ANALYSTS, EVEN FROM COMPETITORS WHO SPOKE OUT

17

AGAINST OUR ANNOUNCEMENT AND SAID THAT WE'RE GOING

18

TO FAIL.

19

FAIL.

20

THERE WERE MANY PEOPLE EXPRESSING DOUBT.

21

Q

22

WOULD FAIL?

23

A

YES, ABSOLUTELY.

24

Q

AND DO YOU RECALL ANY OF THE REASONS THAT WERE

25

GIVEN AT THE TIME?

EVEN MICROSOFT SAID WE WERE GOING TO

THE HEAD OF PALM SAID WE WERE GOING TO FAIL.

AND DID THEY GIVE REASONS WHY THEY THOUGHT IT

601

1

A

PROBABLY THE BIGGEST REASON WAS THAT APPLE HAD

2

NEVER HAD A PHONE BEFORE AND WAS NEW INTO THE PHONE

3

BUSINESS AND THEY EXPECTED THAT WE WOULD FALL ON TO

4

OUR FACE AND DO A BAD JOB OF IT.

5

Q

6

EXHIBIT BINDER THERE, PX 133.

7

A

YES.

8

Q

CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THAT DOCUMENT IS, PLEASE?

9

A

THIS IS AN ARTICLE FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES

SIR, IF YOU LOOK AT EXHIBIT 133 IN YOUR

10

THAT APPEARED THE DAY AFTER THE LAUNCH OF THE

11

IPHONE WRITTEN BY DAVID POGUE, ONE OF THE

12

PREEMINENT -MR. MCELHINNY:

13
14

YOUR HONOR, I MOVE PX

133.

15

THE COURT:

ANY OBJECTION?

16

MR. PRICE:

WE HAVE NO FURTHER OBJECTION

17
18

TO THAT.
WE WOULD REQUEST A LIMITING INSTRUCTION

19

TO THE JURY THAT THIS IS NOT FOR THE TRUTH OF

20

ANYTHING THAT'S IN THE ARTICLE.

21

THE COURT:

THAT'S FINE.

THAT'S FINE.

22

IT'S ADMITTED, AND THIS IS NOT FOR THE TRUTH OF

23

WHAT IS STATED IN THE ARTICLE.

24

(WHEREUPON, PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NUMBER

25

133, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED FOR

602

1

IDENTIFICATION, WAS ADMITTED INTO

2

EVIDENCE.)

3

THE COURT:

4

YOU MAY CONSIDER IT

OTHERWISE.

5

GO AHEAD.

6

BY MR. MCELHINNY:

7

Q

WOULD YOU PLEASE PUT UP PDX 1, PLEASE.

8
9

CAN YOU TELL US BRIEFLY WHAT MR. POGUE
SAID IN THIS ARTICLE?

10

A

YES.

11

WAND, THE IPHONE, AT THE PHONE, AND HE CALLED IT

12

BEAUTIFUL AND THAT THAT ALONE WOULD BE ENOUGH TO

13

EXCITE PEOPLE AND MAKE PEOPLE WANT TO BUY IT.

14

MR. POGUE WROTE THAT APPLE HAD WAVED OUR

HE ALSO CALLED IT GORGEOUS AND HE SPOKE

15

ABOUT ITS SHINY BLACK FACE AND STAINLESS STEEL

16

MIRRORED FINISHED RIM THAT WENT AROUND IT, THE LOOK

17

OF IT.

18

SO HE TALKED ABOUT HOW IT LOOKED AND HOW

19

BEAUTIFUL IT LOOKED.

20

Q

21

RELEASED, SIR?

22

A

23

YEAR, JUNE 19TH, 2007.

24

Q

25

TO PROMOTE THE IPHONE ITSELF?

WHEN WAS THE IPHONE ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY

WE SHIPPED THE FIRST IPHONES IN JUNE OF THAT

DID APPLE DO ANYTHING BETWEEN JANUARY AND JUNE

603

1

A

YES, WE DID.

2

Q

CAN YOU GIVE US EXAMPLES OF WHAT YOU DID?

3

A

WELL, IN THAT PERIOD FROM JANUARY UNTIL JUNE,

4

WE HAD A FEW MARKETING STRATEGIES.

5

THE BEGINNING WAS FIRST WE CALLED IT GO

6

QUIET.

SO RIGHT AFTER THE LAUNCH IN JANUARY, THERE

7

WAS SO MUCH EXCITEMENT, SO MUCH PRESS COVERAGE, WE

8

DIDN'T NEED TO DO OTHER MARKETING.

9

TO DO WAS LET THE PRESS WRITE AND TALK ABOUT THE

10

IPHONE.

11

THE BEST THING

LAUNCH OF A PRODUCT IN HISTORY.

12

SOME TALKED ABOUT THAT AS THE BIGGEST P.R.

AND THEN LEADING TOWARDS JUNE, WE BEGAN

13

TO CAREFULLY TURN ON THE MARKETING.

FIRST WE HELD

14

A TV AD DURING THE ACADEMY AWARDS IN EARLY MARCH.

15

IT WAS CALLED THE HELLO TV AD WHERE WE HAD FAMOUS

16

SCENES OF PEOPLE MAKING PHONE CALLS, AND THEN AT

17

THE END OF THAT AD, IT ANNOUNCED THAT THE IPHONE

18

WAS COMING IN JUNE, AT THE END OF JUNE.

19

AND THEN AS WE GOT CLOSER TO THE LAUNCH

20

IN JUNE, WE STARTED TO BRING ON ADDITIONAL TV ADS

21

SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE IPHONE, SHOWCASING IT, AS

22

WELL AS DOING A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF MARKETING WITH

23

DIRECT MAIL, WEBSITES, HELPING THE WHOLE WORLD GET

24

READY FOR THE ARRIVAL OF THE IPHONE.

25

Q

WHERE WERE YOU PHYSICALLY WHEN THE IPHONE WAS

604

1

RELEASED, SIR?

2

A

3

MICHIGAN AVENUE.

4

Q

AND WHY WERE YOU THERE?

5

A

WE REALIZED THAT THIS WAS A VERY, VERY BIG DAY

6

FOR APPLE, THE LAUNCH OF THE IPHONE, AND SO MUCH

7

EXCITEMENT HAD BUILT UP THAT I SENT MY TEAM,

8

INCLUDING MYSELF, AROUND THE COUNTRY TO DIFFERENT

9

LOCATIONS TO BE EVERYWHERE WE COULD.

I WAS AT OUR APPLE STORE IN CHICAGO ON

10

AND SO I CHOSE TO GO TO CHICAGO, AND I

11

ACTUALLY EVEN BROUGHT MY SON WITH ME BECAUSE THIS

12

WAS SUCH A HUGE DAY AND I WANTED HIM TO BE PART OF

13

THAT.

14

Q

15

YOU SEE ADDITIONAL REVIEWS IN THE PRESS CONCERNING

16

ITS FEATURES?

17

A

YES.

18

Q

DID ANY OF THE ARTICLES OR REVIEWS TALK ABOUT

19

THE DESIGN OF THE IPHONE?

20

A

21

ABOUT THE DESIGN AND SPOKE ABOUT IT, EVEN SHOWED IT

22

IN THEIR STORIES.

23

Q

24

EXHIBIT PX 17, 17.

25

A

AFTER THE IPHONE WAS PHYSICALLY RELEASED, DID

OH, I THINK MANY, MANY OF THE ARTICLES TALKED

CAN YOU LOOK IN YOUR BINDER, PLEASE, AT

YES.

605

1

Q

CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THIS DOCUMENT IS, PLEASE?

2

A

THIS IS A SUMMARY OF SOME OF THE NEWS COVERAGE

3

ABOUT THE IPHONE.

4

MR. MCELHINNY:

YOUR HONOR, I MOVE PX 17.

5

THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

6

MR. PRICE:

NO FURTHER OBJECTIONS, AGAIN,

ANY OBJECTION?

7

YOUR HONOR, WITH THE LIMITING INSTRUCTION THAT

8

NOTHING IN THESE ARTICLES IS TO BE TAKEN FOR THE

9

TRUTH OF THE MATTER ASSERTED.

10

THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

SO THIS IS

11

ADMITTED AND YOU ARE NOT TO CONSIDER THIS FOR THE

12

TRUTH OF WHAT'S ASSERTED IN THIS EXHIBIT.

13

CONSIDER IT OTHERWISE.

YOU CAN

14

(WHEREUPON, PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NUMBER

15

17, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED FOR

16

IDENTIFICATION, WAS ADMITTED INTO

17

EVIDENCE.)

18

THE COURT:

19

MR. MCELHINNY:

GO AHEAD, PLEASE.
THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

20

Q

IS THIS THE FIRST PAGE OF PX 17?

21

A

YES, IT IS.

22

Q

AND, AGAIN, JUST WHAT ARE EACH OF THESE

23

PHOTOGRAPHS THAT GO THROUGH THESE PAGES?

24

A

25

DIFFERENT NEWS COVERAGE THAT WAS WRITTEN ABOUT THE

THESE ARE ALL EXCERPTS AND SUMMARIES OF

671

1

MR. SINCLAIR.

2

Q

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

3

A

HE IS A PRODUCT MANAGER ON MY TEAM.

4

Q

IT'S ACTUALLY A STRING OF E-MAILS.

5

THAT?

6

A

7

IN HERE.

8

Q

9

APRIL 6TH, 2010, STEVE SINCLAIR WROTE; CORRECT?

10

A

DO YOU SEE

YES, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF E-MAILS REFERENCED

AND ON THE SECOND PAGE, DO YOU SEE IT SAYS ON

YES, I SEE THAT.

11
12

WHO IS MR. SINCLAIR?

MR. PRICE:

YOUR HONOR, MOVE EXHIBIT 578

INTO EVIDENCE.

13

THE COURT:

ANY OBJECTION?

14

MR. MCELHINNY:

15

THE COURT:

16

(WHEREUPON, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBER

17

578, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED FOR

18

IDENTIFICATION, WAS ADMITTED INTO

19

EVIDENCE.)

20

MR. PRICE:

NO OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

IT'S ADMITTED.

AND IF WE COULD PUT UP THAT

21

SECOND PAGE AND JUST BLOW UP THE PART THAT STARTS

22

HERE WITH STEVE SINCLAIR, RIGHT HERE ON DOWN, THERE

23

WE GO.

24

Q

25

TOUCH TO APPROACH THIS WITH THE CRITERIA BEING

AND DO YOU SEE MR. SINCLAIR WRITES, "IT'S

672

1

'FIRST,'" AND THIS WAS IN CONNECTION WITH A

2

MARKETING APPROACH THAT WAS BEING DISCUSSED; RIGHT?

3

A

4

AND THE AD TEAM ON SOME CLAIMS.

5

Q

"AD" BEING ADVERTISING?

6

A

YES.

7

Q

OKAY.

8

THINGS WE CAN COME UP WITH THAT YOU COULD

9

LEGITIMATELY CLAIM WE DID FIRST.

THIS WAS A DISCUSSION BETWEEN STEVE SINCLAIR

AND HE SAYS, "I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY

CERTAINLY WE HAVE

10

THE FIRST COMMERCIALLY SUCCESSFUL VERSIONS OF MANY

11

FEATURES."

12

AND I JUST WANT TO GO, "THE FIRST PHONE

13

TO INCORPORATE A FULL TOUCHSCREEN FACE," AND IT

14

SAYS, "NOT TRUE," AND YOU SEE THERE'S THAT

15

WIKIPEDIA SITE TO A PRODUCT, THE LG PRADA.
DO YOU SEE THAT?

16
17

A

18

I SEE THAT.
MR. PRICE:

AND BY THE WAY, YOUR HONOR, I

19

MOVE THE PRADA INTO EVIDENCE, IF I CAN REMEMBER THE

20

EXHIBIT NUMBER.

21

1093.

DOES IT HAVE A NUMBER ON THE BACK?

22

THE COURT:

OKAY.

23

MR. MCELHINNY:

ANY OBJECTION?

THIS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO

24

COME IN, YOUR HONOR, PURSUANT TO YOUR ORDER ABOUT

25

THE SPECIFIC LIMITING INSTRUCTION WHICH HAS NOT

673

1

BEEN PREPARED YET.

2

TERM IS USED AND WILL BE USED BY THE JURY.

3
4

BUT IT IS NOT PRIOR ART AS THAT

MR. PRICE:

AND WE'RE NOT -- THIS

EXAMINATION IS NOT TALKING ABOUT PRIOR ART.

5

MR. MCELHINNY:

SO IT'S NOT RELEVANT TO

6

THE VALIDITY OF ANY OF OUR PATENTS AT ISSUE, YOUR

7

HONOR.

8

THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

10

MR. PRICE:

YES, YOUR HONOR.

11

THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

9

SO WHAT -- IT'S

1093?

SO THE LIMITING

12

INSTRUCTION IS THAT THIS EXHIBIT, OR I GUESS THIS

13

PHONE, IS ADMITTED, BUT IT IS NOT PRIOR ART FOR

14

PURPOSES OF ANY INVALIDITY OF THE PATENTS.

15

SO YOU CAN CONSIDER IT.

16

MR. PRICE:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

17

THE COURT:

IT'S IN EVIDENCE.

18

(WHEREUPON, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBER

19

1093, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED FOR

20

IDENTIFICATION, WAS ADMITTED INTO

21

EVIDENCE.)

22

THE COURT:

OKAY?

GO AHEAD.

23

BY MR. PRICE:

24

Q

25

ASSERTED HERE THAT SAYS THAT THE TOUCHSCREEN, THAT

TO BE CLEAR, THERE'S NO PATENT THAT HAS BEEN

674

1

APPLE OWNS THAT EXCLUSIVELY; RIGHT?

2

A

3

TOUCHSCREEN PATENTS INVOLVED.

4

WHICH ONES AND HOW TO SUMMARIZE THAT.

5

Q

6

WHO'S IN MARKETING, THAT THERE IS AN ADVANTAGE TO

7

HAVING A LARGER SCREEN ON THE PHONE?

8

A

9

AND TIMES WHEN IT CAN BECOME A DISADVANTAGE.

I'M NOT CERTAIN.

OKAY.

I KNOW THERE'S SOME
I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY

WELL, IF -- YOU UNDERSTAND, AS SOMEONE

TO AN EXTENT OF THE THERE ARE TIMES WHEN IT IS

10

Q

SO IT'S A FUNCTIONAL ADVANTAGE IF, FOR

11

EXAMPLE, YOU WANT TO WATCH MOVIES; RIGHT?

12

MR. MCELHINNY:

EXCUSE ME, YOUR HONOR.

13

IF YOU THINK IT IS A TERM OF ART AND IT'S A LEGAL

14

EXPRESS WHICH HE JUST SUBSTITUTED INTO HIS

15

QUESTION.

16

AS HE'S USING IT.

17
18

WE DON'T HAVE A DEFINITION OF FUNCTIONAL

THE COURT:

WHY DON'T YOU REPHRASE YOUR

MR. PRICE:

SURE.

QUESTION.

19
20

Q

YOU BELIEVE THAT A LARGER SCREEN PROVIDES

21

ADVANTAGES TO A CONSUMER IF THE CONSUMER WANTS TO

22

WATCH A MOVIE?

23

A

24

BENEFIT AND ONE OF THOSE WOULD BE WATCHING A MOVIE.

25

Q

THERE ARE TIMES WHEN A LARGER SCREEN IS A

OKAY.

AND THAT IT'S AN ADVANTAGE BECAUSE YOU

675

1

CAN VIEW A LARGER SECTION, FOR EXAMPLE, OF A WEB

2

PAGE?

3

A

4

AN ADVANTAGE FOR THAT.

5

Q

6

WHICH CONSUMERS WANT, THAT THEY WANT SCREENS THAT

7

ARE LARGER SO THEY CAN SEE WEB PAGES, MOVIES, YOU

8

KNOW, WITHIN THE LIMIT OF THE, YOU KNOW, BEING

9

USEFUL IN YOUR HAND?

DEPENDING ON THE SCREEN RESOLUTION, IT CAN BE

AND IT'S YOUR EXPERIENCE THAT THESE ARE THINGS

10

A

LARGER SCREENS ARE -- CAN BE A BENEFIT TO

11

USERS.

12

ONE THING THAT THEY WANT.

13

Q

14

IPHONE IN 2007, IT EXPECTED COMPETITION IN THE

15

SMARTPHONE INDUSTRY WITH PHONES THAT YOU COULD

16

WATCH MOVIES ON OR VIEW WEB PAGES; CORRECT?

17

A

18

SPACE, YES.

19

Q

20

DIDN'T THINK THAT IT HAD THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO

21

GIVE THE CONSUMER A SMARTPHONE WITH A SCREEN THAT

22

COULD EXHIBIT WEB PAGES, MOVIES, MUSIC; RIGHT?

23

A

24

OR MUSIC ON PHONES.

25

Q

IT'S NOT THE ONLY THING THEY WANT, BUT IT'S

AND WHEN, WHEN YOU -- WHEN APPLE RELEASED THE

WE EXPECTED COMPETITION IN THE SMARTPHONE

BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T THINK THAT APPLE -- APPLE

WE DID NOT HAVE EXCLUSIVITY ON PLAYING MOVIES

SO LET'S TALK THEN NOW ABOUT, ABOUT OTHER

676

1

THINGS ABOUT THE WAY THE PHONE WORKS.

2

IF -- LET ME ASK YOU, YOU'VE HEARD THE

3

PHRASE THAT EVERYTHING DEFERS TO THE SCREEN?

4

A

NO, ACTUALLY, I DON'T RECALL THAT PHRASE.

5

Q

DO YOU REMEMBER MR. IVE SAYING SOME PHRASE

6

LIKE THAT, THAT EVERYTHING DEFERS TO THE SCREEN?

7

A

YOU MEAN JONATHAN IVE?

8

Q

YES, IVE, THANK YOU.

9

A

I DON'T RECALL THAT SAYING.

10

Q

BUT THAT'S THE IDEA FOR APPLE'S PHONES, FOR

11

EXAMPLE, IS THAT THE SCREEN KIND OF DOMINANTS THE

12

PHONE?

13

MR. MCELHINNY:

THIS IS BEYOND THE SCOPE

14

OF DIRECT EXAMINATION, YOUR HONOR, TALKING ABOUT

15

THE ELEMENTS OF THE DESIGN.
MR. PRICE:

17

HE TALKED ABOUT THE DESIGN AT

THE COURT:

16

GO AHEAD.

LENGTH.

18

OVERRULED.

19

BY MR. PRICE:

20

Q

CORRECT?

21

A

I'M SORRY.

22

Q

THE SCREEN DOMINANTS THE APPLE IPHONE;

23

CORRECT?

24

A

25

THE PHONE.

COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION.

THE SCREEN IS ONE OF THE DOMINANT FEATURES OF

677

1

Q

AND I'M GOING TO -- WE WERE TALKING ABOUT

2

EXHIBIT 1000, WHICH WAS THE FIRST PHONE, AND YOU

3

WERE ASKED BY YOUR COUNSEL ABOUT THAT, SO WHEN THE

4

SCREEN DOMINANTS, THEN, FOR EXAMPLE, ON THE IPHONE,

5

THERE'S THESE TWO AREAS AT THE TOP AND BOTTOM,

6

FAIRLY SMALL AREAS COMPARED TO THE SCREEN; CORRECT?

7

A

8

THE PHONE AND THE SCREEN AS WELL.

9

Q

YEAH, THERE ARE AREAS ON THE TOP AND BOTTOM OF

AND IN THAT REGARD, APPLE'S PHILOSOPHY HAS

10

BEEN LET'S MAKE THIS REALLY CLEAN AND NOT HAVE

11

APPLE ON IT AND JUST HAVE A SPEAKER AND HAVE WHAT

12

IS CALLED THE HOME BUTTON; CORRECT?

13

A

14

ON THE FRONT FOR THE SCREEN AND THE AREA ABOVE AND

15

BELOW IT.

16

Q

17

PEOPLE HOLD THEIR PHONES LIKE I'M HOLDING THIS IN

18

MY HAND NOW, RIGHT (INDICATING)?

19

A

THAT'S ONE WAY TO HOLD IT.

20

Q

VERY RARELY, WHEN MAKING A CALL, FOR EXAMPLE,

21

DO PEOPLE HOLD PHONES LIKE THIS WITH ONE FINGER,

22

RIGHT (INDICATING)?

23

A

24

(INDICATING).

25

Q

OUR PHILOSOPHY IS TO CREATE ONE SEAMLESS FACE

THAT'S OUR PHILOSOPHY ON THAT.

SO IF YOU'VE GOT A TOUCHSCREEN, AND MOST

I HOLD IT LIKE THAT WHEN I MAKE A CALL

NOW, WHEN YOU HAVE A TOUCHSCREEN, YOU HAVE TO

678

1

DO SOMETHING ON THE EDGES HERE SO THAT YOUR FINGERS

2

AREN'T TOUCHING THAT SCREEN AND, AND DOING

3

SOMETHING THAT YOU DON'T WANT IT TO DO; RIGHT?

4

A

NO.

5

Q

WELL, YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE SOMEONE

6

ACCIDENTALLY TOUCHING THE PHONE WHEN THEY'RE

7

HOLDING IT THE WAY THAT THEY WOULD NORMALLY HOLD IT

8

FOR A CALL; CORRECT?

9

A

IT'S MUCH MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT.

AGAIN, I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN.

YOU DO

10

WANT PEOPLE TO TOUCH THEIR PHONE WHEN THEY'RE

11

HOLDING IT TO MAKE A CALL AND IT WILL TOUCH THE

12

SCREEN.

13

Q

14

IT'S AN INTERACTIVE TOUCHSCREEN, YOU DON'T WANT

15

PEOPLE TO ACCIDENTALLY TOUCH IT WHILE THEY'RE

16

MAKING A CALL.

17

BE KIND OF AN INCONVENIENCE?

18

A

19

WE'VE INVENTED WAYS TO, TO KEEP THAT FROM CREATING

20

CONTACTS THAT YOU DON'T WANT OR SIGNALS THAT YOU

21

DON'T WANT TO HAPPEN ON YOUR CALL, YES.

22

Q

23

FIRST IPHONE, IT HAS THIS METAL BEZEL AND IT HAS

24

THESE VERY SMALL DARK LINES DOWN THE SIDE WHICH ARE

25

NOT PART OF THE ACTUAL INTERACTIVE SCREEN; RIGHT?

THE SCREEN.

YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO -- IF

THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEM THAT WOULD

WELL, THEY WILL FROM TIME TO TIME TOUCH IT, SO

AND WHAT APPLE HAS DONE HERE, AT LEAST ON THE

679

1

A

THERE ARE -- THERE IS A BORDER AROUND THE

2

SCREEN THAT'S VERY SMALL, YES.

3

Q

4

ANYTHING TO MAKE THE PHONE FUNCTION; RIGHT?

5

A

6

NOT -- EXCEPT FOR, OF COURSE, THE HOME BUTTON AND

7

THE BUTTONS ON THE SIDE, YOU'RE NOT INTERACTING

8

WITH IT; CORRECT.

9

Q

AND YOU NEED A SPEAKER AT THE TOP TO HEAR?

10

A

YOU NEED A SPEAKER TO HEAR, UNLESS YOU'RE

11

USING A HEAD SET.

12

Q

13

SOMETHING ON THE TOP FOR A CAMERA; CORRECT?

14

A

FOR A FRONT FACING CAMERA, YES.

15

Q

AND THESE AREAS THAT ARE DARK, YOU KNOW, ABOVE

16

AND BELOW THE SCREEN, DO THEY HIDE INTERNAL WIRING

17

AND COMPONENTS?

18

A

19

IPHONE, THE SCREEN AND THE TOP AND BOTTOM, AND

20

ALONG THE BOTTOM AS WELL.

21

Q

22

ASSUME YOU THOUGHT THAT CUSTOMERS MIGHT PUT THESE

23

PHONES IN THEIR POCKETS.

24

A

25

IN THEIR POCKET.

AND THAT BORDER, IF YOU TOUCH IT, IT WON'T DO

IF YOU'RE NOT TOUCHING THE TOUCHSCREEN, YOU'RE

AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A CAMERA, YOU NEED

THERE ARE COMPONENTS BEHIND EVERY PART OF THE

NOW, ANOTHER THING, THESE ARE ROUNDED.

I

WE CERTAINLY ASSUME CUSTOMERS PUT THEIR PHONE
I WOULDN'T SAY THAT'S WHY IT'S

680

1

ROUNDED.

THAT'S NOT THE ONLY REASON.

2

Q

3

SQUARE, THAT WOULD MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR A

4

CUSTOMER TO TAKE THEIR PHONE OUT OF THEIR POCKET?

5

A

6

MATTER WHAT THE SHAPE IS.

7

A GUARANTEED RULE.

8

WORK JUST FINE IN YOUR POCKETS.

9

Q

IT MAY NOT BE THE ONLY REASON, BUT IF IT'S

IT DEPENDS.

THERE ARE WAYS TO HANDLE THAT NO
SO I WOULDN'T SAY THAT'S

I'VE SEEN SQUARE PHONES THAT

YOU THINK THAT JUST GENERALLY, USING YOUR

10

COMMON SENSE, IT WOULD BE MORE DIFFICULT TO TAKE A

11

SQUARE PHONE OUT OF YOUR POCKET BECAUSE IT MIGHT

12

CATCH ON SOMETHING?

13

A

14

CORNERS CERTAINLY HELP YOU MOVE THINGS IN AND OUT

15

OF YOUR POCKET.

16

Q

17

DEVELOPMENT OF THE IPHONE; RIGHT?

18

A

YES.

19

Q

AND YOU SAID THAT YOU THOUGHT IT WAS, I THINK,

20

BEAUTIFUL, UNIQUE, DISTINCTIVE; CORRECT?

21

A

YES.

22

Q

AND WE SHOWED THAT PICTURE IN 2011, AFTER

23

MR. JOBS PASSED AWAY, AND THEY HAD THE IPHONES AND

24

YOU SAID YOU COULD IMMEDIATELY RECOGNIZE THOSE AS

25

IPHONES; CORRECT?

I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE SIZE, BUT ROUNDED

NOW, YOU SAID THAT YOU WERE INVOLVED IN THE

681

1

A

YES, I DID.

2

Q

BECAUSE THEY WERE SO UNIQUE; RIGHT?

3

A

YES.

4

Q

SO I THEN HEARD YOU TESTIFY FROM, I GUESS,

5

MR. MCELHINNY SAYING THAT YOU BELIEVED THERE WAS

6

CONSUMER CONFUSION REGARDING THE IPHONE AND

7

SAMSUNG'S PRODUCTS; RIGHT?

8

A

9

ADS AND OUTDOOR ADVERTISING HOW IT WOULD CREATE

I SAID -- I EXPLAINED AN EXAMPLE BOTH WITH TV

10

CONFUSION AND IF THE USER SEES EITHER A SAMSUNG OR

11

AN APPLE PHONE, THE MORE THAT A SAMSUNG PHONE

12

COPIES AN APPLE PHONE, THE HARDER IT IS TO TELL

13

WHICH IS WHICH IN SITUATIONS LIKE I DESCRIBED,

14

DRIVING BY A BILLBOARD OR WATCHING TV AND MOVING

15

OUT OF THE ROOM.

16

Q

17

UNDERSTANDING OF HOW CONSUMERS OVER THE YEARS HAVE

18

BUILT THESE SMARTPHONES.

LET'S TALK ABOUT HOW, ABOUT HOW -- YOUR

THEY'RE FAIRLY EXPENSIVE COMPARED TO

19
20

OTHER PHONES; CORRECT?

21

A

NOT NECESSARILY.

22

Q

OKAY.

23

A

THE IPHONE STARTS AT FREE WHEN YOU PURCHASE

24

IT -- IN THE U.S., THE PREDOMINANT NUMBER OF

25

CUSTOMERS BUY IT WITH A CONTRACT AND IT'S FREE.

WOULD YOU SAY $500, $600 IS EXPENSIVE?

682

1

Q

THE CURRENT IPHONE ALSO?

MODELS?

2

A

THE IPHONE 3GS STARTS AT FREE, YES.

3

Q

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE LATEST AND GREATEST

4

MODELS THAT YOU COME OUT WITH AND THERE'S A BIG

5

SPLASH OF MEDIA, THEY'RE KIND OF EXPENSIVE?

6

PEOPLE DON'T BUY THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE EXPENSIVE?

7

A

8

TRADITIONALLY START AT ABOUT $199 UNDER A CONTRACT.

9

SO DEPENDING ON YOUR PERSPECTIVE WHETHER THAT'S

SOME PEOPLE DO, SOME DON'T.

SOME

THEY

10

EXPENSIVE OR NOT.

11

Q

12

USUALLY CONSIDER THEIR PHONE PURCHASE CAREFULLY

13

WHEN THEY'RE BUYING SUCH A PERSONAL AND PRICED

14

ITEM?

15

A

16

CARE SOMEONE TAKES IN AN INDIVIDUAL PURCHASE.

17

Q

18

CORRECT?

19

A

I HAVE GONE INTO STORES.

20

Q

AND IN THE STORES, THE IPHONE PRODUCTS ARE

21

SEGREGATED, AT THE CARRIERS, FROM SAMSUNG PRODUCTS;

22

RIGHT?

23

A

24

THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS NEXT TO EACH OTHER.

25

Q

AND YOUR RESEARCH TELLS YOU THAT PEOPLE

I DON'T RECALL ANY SPECIFIC RESEARCH ABOUT THE

YOU'VE HAD EXPERIENCE GOING INTO STORES;

IT DEPENDS ON THE STORE AND THE SETUP, BUT

THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

EVERY STORE

683

1

YOU'VE BEEN INTO THAT'S A CARRIER, THE IPHONE

2

PRODUCTS ARE SEGREGATED FROM THE SAMSUNG PRODUCTS;

3

RIGHT?

4

A

5

MEAN, BUT USUALLY THEY'RE DISPLAYED SEPARATELY FROM

6

EACH OTHER.

7

Q

8

WITH SAMSUNG PHONES.

9

OF PHONES THAT ARE, THAT ARE ACCUSED IN THIS CASE;

AGAIN, I'M NOT SURE BY SEGREGATED WHAT YOU

AND YOU ARE SAYING THAT THE IPHONE IS CONFUSED
YOU KNOW THERE ARE A NUMBER

10

RIGHT?

11

A

12

THAT HAVE COPIED THE IPHONE, YES.

13

Q

14

AT THESE PHONES, THEN CUSTOMERS ARE GOING TO BE

15

CONFUSED ABOUT ALL THE PHONES THAT ARE ACCUSED IN

16

THIS CASE?

17

A

18

YES, I BELIEVE THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PHONES

AND SO IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THAT IF YOU LOOK

I BELIEVE CUSTOMERS CAN BE CONFUSED.
AND, AGAIN, I WAS SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY

19

ABOUT ALL THE MARKETING EFFORT AND I BELIEVE

20

THEY'RE CREATING CONFUSION THERE.

21

Q

22

EXHIBIT 1016.

23

ONE OF THE ACCUSED PRODUCTS.

WELL, LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS
THIS IS A, A JOINT EXHIBIT.

IT'S

IT'S THE CONTINUUM.

24

IF I MAY APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?

25

THE COURT:

GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

718

1

CALLED THE COM-TECH SURVEY, AND HE SHOWED YOU PAGE

2

23, AND HE SHOWED YOU THE CHART UP IN THE UPPER

3

RIGHT-HAND CORNER, WHICH IF I UNDERSTAND IT

4

CORRECTLY, SHOWED THAT FOUR TIMES MORE PEOPLE LIKED

5

THE DESIGN OF THE BLACKBERRY PHONE THAN LIKED THE

6

DESIGN OF THE APPLE PHONE.

7

PURPORTS TO SHOW?

8

A

NO, I DON'T AGREE IT SHOWS THAT.

9

Q

YOU WERE GOING TO -- YOU WERE GOING TO TRY TO

IS THAT WHAT THAT

10

EXPLAIN HOW TO INTERPRET THIS CORRECTLY, AND I'D

11

LIKE TO GIVE YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT?

12

A

13

WITH THIS DATA WAS THEY ASKED CUSTOMERS A SPECIFIC

14

QUESTION AND THAT QUESTION WAS, OTHER THAN PRICE,

15

SO YOU'VE ALREADY SET THE MINDSET TO START THEM

16

THINKING ABOUT WHAT MATTERS TO THEM, WHAT ONE OTHER

17

THING WOULD YOU RATE AS IMPORTANT IN YOUR PURCHASE?

YES, AS I UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS COMPANY DID

18
19
20

AND THEY WERE ALLOWED TO ONLY PICK ONE
THING.
AND THAT'S THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE

21

METHODOLOGY I HAD HERE.

22

COLLECT WHERE WE ASK EACH ITEM AND CHECK WHICH IS

23

THE TOP BOXES OF PREFERENCE, THIS YOU WERE LIMITED

24

IN YOUR CHOICE.

25

SO UNLIKE THE DATA WE

AND TO FURTHER ADD CONFUSION, ONE OF

719

1

THOSE CHOICES IS BRAND, WHICH AS YOU SEE, APPLE

2

RANKS THE HIGHEST OF.

3

AND I BELIEVE THAT CUSTOMERS AT THIS

4

LEVEL AREN'T CLEAR ON BRAND AND DESIGN AND WHAT

5

THAT MEANS.

6

SO YOU WEREN'T GIVEN MORE THAN ONE

7

CHOICE, AND IT WAS CONFUSED WITH OTHER CHOICES THAT

8

HAD RATED VERY HIGHLY.

9

DESIGN, YOU COULDN'T SELECT THAT.

SO IF YOU LIKED BRAND AND

10

Q

SO THAT WE'RE, AGAIN, USING THE SAME

11

TERMINOLOGY, WHAT DOES BRAND, AS IS USED ON THIS

12

CHART WHICH COUNSEL PUT INTO EVIDENCE, WHAT DOES

13

BRAND MEAN?

14

A

15

SAY BRAND/MODEL.

16

BRAND OF THE COMPANY, BUT MODEL MEANS MODEL OF

17

PHONES.

18

IPHONE.

ON THIS QUESTION IT'S CONFUSED BECAUSE THEY
SOME PEOPLE THINK BRAND MEANS THE

SO IN THIS CASE, IT MIGHT MEAN APPLE AND

SO IN THIS CASE, I CAN ONLY ASSUME,

19
20

BECAUSE IT'S UP TO THE USER'S INTERPRETATION OF

21

WHAT THEY'RE ASKED, THAT 44 PERCENT OF APPLE IOS

22

CUSTOMERS SELECTED APPLE/IPHONE AS A PRIMARY REASON

23

TO PURCHASE, OTHER THAN PRICE.

24

COULDN'T EXPECT ANYTHING ELSE.

25

Q

AND THEN THEY

BASED ON YOUR EXPERIENCE IN MARKETING, IS

720

1

THERE AN OVERLAP OR A CONNECTION BETWEEN THE DESIGN

2

OF THE APPLE PHONES AND THE APPLE BRAND?

3

A

YES, I THINK THERE'S A STRONG CORRELATION.

4

Q

AND WHAT IS THAT CORRELATION?

5

A

IT IS THAT PEOPLE ASSOCIATE THE APPLE BRAND

6

WITH GREAT DESIGN, AND THEY HAVE INTRINSIC MEANING

7

TOGETHER.

8

Q

9

WERE INVOLVED IN THE ORIGINAL IPHONE PRODUCT; IS

SIR, AGAIN, I THINK YOU TESTIFIED THAT YOU

10

THAT CORRECT?

11

A

YES.

12

Q

AND WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT WHAT THE IPHONE

13

LOOKS LIKE AND THE DESIGN AND THE ELEMENTS OF THAT

14

DESIGN; IS THAT CORRECT?

15

A

YES.

16

Q

WAS THAT DESIGN CHOSEN SO THAT IT WOULDN'T

17

MATCH ON SOMEBODY'S POCKET?

18

A

NO.

19

Q

WHAT WAS THE THEME OF THE OVERALL DESIGN OF

20

THE IPHONE?

21

A

22

DESIGN FOR A PHONE THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL AND SIMPLE

23

AND EASY TO USE AND CREATED A BEAUTIFUL, SMOOTH

24

SURFACE THAT HAD A TOUCHSCREEN AND WENT RIGHT TO

25

THE RIM WITH THE BEZEL AROUND IT AND LOOKING FOR A

WE WERE TRYING TO CREATE A NEW BREAKTHROUGH

721

1

LOOK THAT WE FOUND WAS BEAUTIFUL AND EASY TO USE

2

AND APPEALING.

3

WE HAD A TERM AT APPLE, IN MARKETING,

4

THAT WE CALLED THE LUST FACTOR.

DOES THIS IPHONE

5

HAVE APPEAL TO PEOPLE THAT THEY LUST AFTER IT

6

BECAUSE IT'S SO GORGEOUS.

7

WE WERE GOING FOR, A HIGH LUST FACTOR.

8

Q

9

UNDER DEVELOPMENT, WERE OTHER DESIGNS CONSIDERED AT

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS

DURING THE FOUR YEARS THAT THE IPHONE WAS

10

ANY TIMES?

11

A

YES, THERE WERE MANY DESIGNS.

12

Q

WOULD THOSE OTHER DESIGNS HAVE CUT ON PEOPLE'S

13

POCKETS.

14

A

I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
MR. MCELHINNY:

15
16

I HAVE

NOTHING FURTHER.

17
18

THANK YOU.

THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

TIME IS NOW

11:50.

19

ANY RECROSS, MR. PRICE?

20

MR. PRICE:

21

NOT MUCH.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION

22

BY MR. PRICE:

23

Q

24

LUST FACTOR WITH THE IPHONE.

25

SHOWED YOU WITH THE FOUR HARD BUTTONS AND THE

I WANTED TO ASK YOU, YOU WANTED TO CREATE THIS
THE SAMSUNG PHONES I

722

1

SIGNAGE AT THE TOP, DO YOU THINK THAT'S BEAUTIFUL?

2

A

3

IPHONE, BUT I THINK THEY'RE TRYING TO BE AS

4

BEAUTIFUL AS THE IPHONE.

5

Q

6

ON THAT REGARD; RIGHT?

7

A

NOT FOR ME.

8

Q

OKAY.

9

THAT ICONIC HOME BUTTON WITH NOTHING ELSE ON THE

10

BOTTOM BECAUSE THAT WAS AN IMPORTANT PART OF WHAT

11

YOU THOUGHT WAS A BEAUTIFUL, UNIQUE DESIGN?

12
13

I DON'T THINK THEY'RE AS BEAUTIFUL AS THE

AND IN YOUR OPINION, THEY DON'T QUITE CUT IT
IN YOUR OPINION?

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS APPLE HAS

MR. MCELHINNY:

BEYOND THE SCOPE.

ASKED

AND ANSWERED.

14

THE COURT:

15

GO AHEAD.

16

THE WITNESS:

OVERRULED.
GO AHEAD, PLEASE.
I THINK WE HAVE A LUSTFUL,

17

GORGEOUS DESIGN IN TOTAL AND I THINK THE HOME

18

BUTTON IS ONE OF THE FEATURES ON THE PHONE.

19

MR. PRICE:

NOTHING FURTHER.

20

THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

21

MAY THIS WITNESS BE EXCUSED AND IS HE

22
23

SO IT'S 11:51.

SUBJECT TO RECALL OR NOT?
MR. MCELHINNY:

I WOULD LIKE HIM EXCUSED,

24

NOT SUBJECT TO RECALL, ALTHOUGH WE MAY CHOOSE TO

25

USE HIM IN REBUTTAL, SO HE WON'T BE IN THE

723

1

COURTROOM.

2
3

THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

EXCUSED.

4

THE WITNESS:

5

THE COURT:

6

WELL, YOU'RE

THANK YOU.
ALL RIGHT.

CALL YOUR NEXT

WITNESS, PLEASE.

7

MR. MCELHINNY:

8

APPLE, WE CALL MR. SCOTT FORSTALL.

9
10

THE CLERK:

YOUR HONOR, ON BEHALF OF

WOULD YOU RAISE YOUR RIGHT

HAND, PLEASE.

11

SCOTT FORSTALL,

12

BEING CALLED AS A WITNESS ON BEHALF OF THE

13

PLAINTIFF, HAVING BEEN FIRST DULY SWORN, WAS

14

EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

15

THE WITNESS:

16

THE CLERK:

17

WOULD YOU HAVE A SEAT,

PLEASE.

18
19

I DO.

WOULD YOU STATE YOUR NAME, PLEASE, AND
SPELL IT?

20

THE WITNESS:

SCOTT FORSTALL, S-C-O-T-T

21

FIRST NAME, LAST NAME FORSTALL, F, AS IN FRANK,

22

O-R-S-T-A-L-L.

23

THE CLERK:

24

MR. MCELHINNY:

25

HONOR?

THANK YOU.
MAY I PROCEED, YOUR

724

1

THE COURT:

2

PLEASE, GO AHEAD.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

3

BY MR. MCELHINNY:

4

Q

GOOD MORNING, MR. FORSTALL.

5

A

GOOD MORNING.

6

Q

I'M GOING TO HAVE YOU ON THE STAND HERE FOR

7

EIGHT MINUTES.

8

BY WHOM ARE YOU EMPLOYED?

9

A

APPLE.

10

Q

AND WHAT IS YOUR CURRENT JOB TITLE, SIR?

11

A

I'M SENIOR VICE-PRESIDENT OF IOS.

12

Q

AND WE'RE GOING TO DO SOME -- I'M GOING TO

13

DEFINE TERMS AS WE GO ALONG.

14

A

15

IPHONES, IPADS, AND IPOD TOUCH.

16

Q

17

RESPONSIBLE FOR AT APPLE?

18

A

19

ON ALL THOSE PLATFORMS, IPHONE, IPADS AND IPOD

20

TOUCH, MY GROUP ALSO DOES USER INTERFACE DESIGN,

21

BOTH FOR THOSE PRODUCTS AND FOR THE MACINTOSH.

22

Q

23

COURT REPORTER AND SO SHE'S TRYING TO TAKE DOWN

24

WHAT YOU SAY.

25

LITTLE BIT, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

WHAT IS IOS?

IOS IS THE OPERATING SYSTEM THAT RUNS ALL

AND JUST GENERALLY, WHAT IS YOUR GROUP

SO IN ADDITION TO ALL THE SOFTWARE THAT RUNS

MR. FORSTALL, THIS WOMAN IN FRONT OF ME IS A

SO IF YOU WOULD SLOW DOWN JUST A

1
2
3
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

4
5
6
7
8
9

I, THE UNDERSIGNED OFFICIAL COURT
REPORTER OF THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR

10

THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA, 280 SOUTH

11

FIRST STREET, SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA, DO HEREBY

12

CERTIFY:

13

THAT THE FOREGOING TRANSCRIPT,

14

CERTIFICATE INCLUSIVE, CONSTITUTES A TRUE, FULL AND

15

CORRECT TRANSCRIPT OF MY SHORTHAND NOTES TAKEN AS

16

SUCH OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER OF THE PROCEEDINGS

17

HEREINBEFORE ENTITLED AND REDUCED BY COMPUTER-AIDED

18

TRANSCRIPTION TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY.

19
20
21
22

/S/
_____________________________
LEE-ANNE SHORTRIDGE, CSR, CRR
CERTIFICATE NUMBER 9595

23
24
25

DATED:

AUGUST 3, 2012