Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 2126

Declaration of Susan Estrich in Support of 2013 MOTION for Judgment as a Matter of Law, New Trial and/or Remittitur Pursuant to Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 50 and 59, 2054 Brief, 2053 Opposition/Response to Motion, filed bySamsung Electronics America, Inc.(a New York corporation), Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., Samsung Telecommunications America, LLC. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 1 to the Estrich Declaration, # 2 Exhibit 2 to the Estrich Declaration, # 3 Exhibit 3 to the Estrich Declaration, # 4 Exhibit 4 to the Estrich Declaration, # 5 Exhibit 5 to the Estrich Declaration, # 6 Exhibit 6 to the Estrich Declaration, # 7 Exhibit 7 to the Estrich Declaration, # 8 Exhibit 8 to the Estrich Declaration, # 9 Exhibit 9 to the Estrich Declaration, # 10 Exhibit 10 to the Estrich Declaration, # 11 Exhibit 11 to the Estrich Declaration, # 12 Exhibit 12 to the Estrich Declaration, # 13 Exhibit 13 to the Estrich Declaration, # 14 Exhibit 14 to the Estrich Declaration, # 15 Exhibit 15 to the Estrich Declaration, # 16 Exhibit 16 to the Estrich Declaration, # 17 Exhibit 17 to the Estrich Declaration, # 18 Exhibit 18 to the Estrich Declaration, # 19 Exhibit 19 to the Estrich Declaration, # 20 Exhibit 20 to the Estrich Declaration, # 21 Exhibit 21 to the Estrich Declaration, # 22 Exhibit 22 to the Estrich Declaration, # 23 Exhibit 23 to the Estrich Declaration, # 24 Exhibit 24 to the Estrich Declaration, # 25 Exhibit 25 to the Estrich Declaration, # 26 Exhibit 26 to the Estrich Declaration, # 27 Exhibit 27 to the Estrich Declaration, # 28 Exhibit 28 to the Estrich Declaration, # 29 Exhibit 29 to the Estrich Declaration, # 30 Exhibit 30 to the Estrich Declaration, # 31 Exhibit 31 to the Estrich Declaration)(Related document(s) 2013 , 2054 , 2053 ) (Maroulis, Victoria) (Filed on 11/9/2012)

Estrich Declaration
Exhibit 8

2321

1

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

2

NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

3

SAN JOSE DIVISION

4
5
6

APPLE INC., A CALIFORNIA
CORPORATION,

7
8
9
10
11
12
13

PLAINTIFF,
VS.
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO.,
LTD., A KOREAN BUSINESS
ENTITY; SAMSUNG
ELECTRONICS AMERICA,
INC., A NEW YORK
CORPORATION; SAMSUNG
TELECOMMUNICATIONS
AMERICA, LLC, A DELAWARE
LIMITED LIABILITY
COMPANY,

14
DEFENDANTS.

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C-11-01846 LHK
SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA
AUGUST 14, 2012
VOLUME 8
PAGES 2321-2650

15
16
17

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
BEFORE THE HONORABLE LUCY H. KOH
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

18
19
20

APPEARANCES ON NEXT PAGE

21
22
23
24
25

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER: LEE-ANNE SHORTRIDGE, CSR, CRR
CERTIFICATE NUMBER 9595
IRENE RODRIGUEZ, CSR, CRR
CERTIFICATE NUMBER 8074

2322

1

A P P E A R A N C E S:

2

FOR PLAINTIFF
APPLE:

3
4

MORRISON & FOERSTER
BY: HAROLD J. MCELHINNY
MICHAEL A. JACOBS
RACHEL KREVANS
425 MARKET STREET
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

94105

5
6
7

FOR COUNTERCLAIMANT WILMER, CUTLER, PICKERING,
APPLE:
HALE AND DORR
BY: WILLIAM F. LEE
60 STATE STREET
BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS 02109

8
BY: MARK D. SELWYN
950 PAGE MILL ROAD
PALO ALTO, CALIFORNIA

9

94304

10
FOR THE DEFENDANT:
11
12

QUINN, EMANUEL, URQUHART,
OLIVER & HEDGES
BY: CHARLES K. VERHOEVEN
50 CALIFORNIA STREET, 22ND FLOOR
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 94111

13
BY:

VICTORIA F. MAROULIS
KEVIN P.B. JOHNSON
555 TWIN DOLPHIN DRIVE
SUITE 560
REDWOOD SHORES, CALIFORNIA

14
15

94065

16
BY:

MICHAEL T. ZELLER
WILLIAM C. PRICE
865 SOUTH FIGUEROA STREET
10TH FLOOR
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90017

17
18
19
FOR INTEL:

PERKINS COIE
BY: DANIEL T. SHVODIAN
3150 PORTER DRIVE
PALO ALTO, CALIFORNIA 94304

INTERPRETERS:

JAMES YIM VICTORY
ALBERT S. KIM
ANN PARK

20
21
22
23
24
25

2323

1
INDEX OF WITNESSES
2
3

DEFENDANT'S

4
5

CLIFTON FORLINES
DIRECT EXAM BY MR. JOHNSON
CROSS-EXAM BY MR. JACOBS

P. 2349
P. 2367

WOODWARD YANG
DIRECT EXAM BY MR. JOHNSON
CROSS-EXAM BY MR. LEE
REDIRECT EXAM BY MR. JOHNSON
RECROSS-EXAM BY MR. LEE

P.
P.
P.
P.

JINYEUN WANG
DIRECT EXAM BY MR. QUINN
CROSS-EXAM BY MR. JACOBS
REDIRECT EXAM BY MR. QUINN

P. 2522
P. 2541
P. 2549

6
7
8
9

2373
2436
2485
2490

10
11
12
13

ROGER FIDLER
BY VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION

14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

ITAY SHERMAN
DIRECT EXAM BY MR. VERHOEVEN
CROSS-EXAM BY MS. KREVANS

P. 2558
P. 2565

P. 2573
P. 2611

2430

1

INTERROGATORIES.

2

IT'S NOT IN THE EXPERT REPORT.

THE COURT:

HE CAN'T GIVE ANY NEW -- I

3

AGREE WITH MR. LEE THAT WHAT'S IN HIS EXPERT REPORT

4

AND WHAT HE SAID DURING HIS DEPOSITION WAS VERY

5

CONCLUSORY AND DIDN'T SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFY EITHER

6

THE APPLET OR THE APPLICATION MODULE.

7

SO HE CAN'T NOW UNDO WHAT HE DID IN HIS

8

EXPERT REPORT OR IN HIS DEPOSITION TESTIMONY.

9

THAT'S WHY IT WAS STRICKEN.

10
11

BUT THE ONE QUESTION THAT YOU'VE RAISED
NOW WILL BE ALLOWED.

12
13

MR. JOHNSON:

OKAY?
YOUR HONOR, I WOULD JUST

ASK, HIS EXPERT REPORT --

14

THE COURT:
GO AHEAD.

ALL RIGHT.

15

TIME.

16

GO AHEAD.

17

RECONSIDERATION YESTERDAY.

18

TIME IS TICKING.

NOW I'M DOCKING

I'M DOCKING TIME.

IT'S 10:30.

I RULED ON THIS SUNDAY NIGHT FOR
GO FOR IT.

10:35.

GO AHEAD.

MR. JOHNSON:

19
20

I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING

FURTHER.

21

THE COURT:

22

MR. JOHNSON:

23

THE COURT:

24

SO WHAT ELSE, DO YOU WANT TO KEEP

25

SO

GO AHEAD.

I'M ALL EARS.

GO AHEAD.
10:35.

FIGHTING ON THIS OR DO YOU WANT TO GO TO TRIAL?

THE

2431

1

I'M TALKING TO BOTH SIDES HERE.

2

MR. LEE:

3

MR. JOHNSON:

4

THE COURT:

5

(WHEREUPON, A RECESS WAS TAKEN.)

6

(WHEREUPON, THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS

7

WE'RE READY TO GO.
ALL RIGHT.

WERE HELD OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

8
9

WE'RE READY TO GO.

THE COURT:
FILED ANYTHING.

SO NEITHER INTEL NOR SAMSUNG

I GOT THE SELWYN DECLARATION

10

WITH -- PLEASE SIT DOWN -- THAT ATTACHES THE

11

E-MAILS AND OTHER EXPERTS BEING DISCLOSED IN MARCH

12

OF THIS YEAR.

13
14

WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THAT?

I SAID TO

FILE IT BY 10:30.
MR. SHVODIAN:

15

YOUR HONOR, WE'RE HAVING

16

IT PRINTED RIGHT NOW.

17

INTEL HAS DECIDED THAT THEY WILL REQUEST SANCTIONS

18

AND AN ORDER OF CONTEMPT, BUT ARE NOT GOING TO

19

REQUEST THAT DR. WILLIAMS BE PRECLUDED FROM

20

TESTIFYING.

21
22

THE COURT:

BUT I CAN LET YOU KNOW,

I WAS NEVER GOING TO GRANT

THAT.

23

MR. SHVODIAN:

24

THE COURT:

25

OKAY.

THAT'S AN EXTREME AND

UNWARRANTED SANCTION, AND IT WOULD BE OVERLY

2432

1

PREJUDICIAL.

2
3

MR. SHVODIAN:

OKAY.

THE PAPERS ARE

BEING COPIED NOW AND WILL BE ELECTRONICALLY FILE.

4

THE COURT:

WHAT I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST

5

IS WHATEVER IT IS, WE'LL JUST DEAL WITH IT LATER.

6

WE'RE NOT GOING TO DEAL WITH IT RIGHT NOW.

7

MR. SHVODIAN:

8

THE COURT:

9
10

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

ALL RIGHT.

WHATEVER YOU'RE

GOING TO FILE, IT SHOULD STILL BE FILED, AND WE'LL
TAKE CARE OF IT LATER.

11

OKAY.

12

MR. JOHNSON:

13

SO, YOUR HONOR, THE

QUESTION THAT I'M GOING TO ASK --

14

THE COURT:

15

MR. JOHNSON:

IT'S 10:52, GO AHEAD.
-- IS DID YOU LOOK AT THE

16

SOURCE CODE TO CONFIRM THAT THE DEVICES HAD THIS

17

ELEMENT?

18

THE ONE AND ONLY QUESTION I'LL ASK.

19
20
21
22

THAT'S RIGHT OUT OF THE PROFFER.

THE COURT:

THAT'S FINE.

THAT'S

YOU'LL JUST

HAVE TO CROSS HIM ON IT.
MR. JOHNSON:

AND THEN CAN I MOVE 645

INTO EVIDENCE?

23

THE COURT:

24

MR. JOHNSON:

25

THE COURT:

WHAT IS 645?
THAT'S THE SOURCE CODE.
THAT'S FINE.

2433

1

ALL RIGHT.

2

(WHEREUPON, THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS

3

WERE HELD IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

4
5

LET'S BRING IN THE JURY.

THE COURT:
SEAT.

IT'S 10:53.

6

ALL RIGHT.

PLEASE TAKE A

GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

MR. JOHNSON:

RYAN, CAN WE BRING UP SDX

7

3967.034.

8

Q

9

EXHIBIT DX 645 TO CONFIRM THE ACCUSED DEVICES HAD

DR. YANG, DID YOU LOOK AT THE SOURCE CODE IN

10

THIS ELEMENT?

11

A

YES, I DID.

12
13

MR. JOHNSON:

645 BE MOVED INTO EVIDENCE.

14
15

YOUR HONOR, WE ASK THAT DX

MR. LEE:

NOTHING MORE THAN THE OBJECTION

PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED.

16

THE COURT:

UNDERSTOOD.

THAT'S ADMITTED.

17

(WHEREUPON, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBER

18

645, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED FOR

19

IDENTIFICATION, WAS ADMITTED INTO

20

EVIDENCE.)

21

MR. JOHNSON:

YOUR HONOR, WE ALSO ASK

22

THAT EXHIBIT 3967.012, WHICH WAS THE VIDEO THAT WAS

23

USED ON THE '460 PATENT, ALSO BE MOVED INTO

24

EVIDENCE.

25

THE COURT:

012, I THOUGHT THAT WAS

2434

1

ALREADY ADMITTED.

2

REGARDING THE '460.

3
4

THAT'S CLAIM 1 OF THE PRODUCTS

MR. JOHNSON:

YEAH.

DEBATE AS TO WHETHER IT WAS ADMITTED OR NOT.

5

THE COURT:

6

MR. JOHNSON:

7

THE COURT:

8

THERE WAS SOME

OKAY.
IT'S 3967.012.
THAT'S ADMITTED.

IS THAT THE

ONE YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT?

9

MR. JOHNSON:

YES.

10

THE COURT:

THAT'S ADMITTED.

11

(WHEREUPON, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBER

12

3967.012, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED

13

FOR IDENTIFICATION, WAS ADMITTED INTO

14

EVIDENCE.)

15

MR. JOHNSON:

AND THEN ALSO THE

16

DEMONSTRATIVES THAT WERE REFERRED TO IN DR. YANG'S

17

DIRECT, 3967.002 THROUGH 43, JUST THE INDIVIDUAL

18

SLIDES, NOT THE VIDEOS.

19

AND 29 IN THAT RANGE.

20

THE COURT:

21

HIS C.V.

22

EVERYTHING EXCEPT SLIDE 16
THEY WERE ALL REFERRED TO.

HANG ON ONE SECOND.

002 IS

ANYBODY.

23
24
25

I HAVE NOT BEEN ADMITTING THAT FOR

MR. JOHNSON:
THEN.

THAT SHOULDN'T BE ON THERE,

003 -- IT SHOULD START AT 003.
THE COURT:

003 IS JUST THE PATENTS WITH

2435

1

THE DESCRIPTION OF THE PATENTS, I MEAN THE PATENTS

2

THEMSELVES ARE IN.

3

ANYWAY, IS THERE ANY OBJECTION TO THE --

4

MR. LEE:

5

THE COURT:

6

NO.
NO?

IF YOU WANT

THE C.V. IN --

7

MR. LEE:

8

MR. JOHNSON:

9

MR. LEE:

10

ALL RIGHT.

TO THE C.V., YES.
WE DON'T NEED THE C.V.

NOT TO THE DEMONSTRATIVES OF

THE PATENTS.

11

THE COURT:

SO 3967.003 IS IN, WHICH IS

12

THE COVER OF THE PATENTS.

13

WHAT YOU'RE REQUESTING?

14

MR. JOHNSON:

15

THE COURT:

16

005 AS WELL, IS THAT

YES, FOR 005 -I DON'T HAVE 004.

WHICH ONE

WAS THAT?

17

MR. JOHNSON:

YOUR HONOR, JUST IN THE

18

INTEREST OF TIME, SINCE WE ALREADY HAVE THE VIDEOS

19

IN, I'M JUST GOING TO STICK WITH THE VIDEOS AT THIS

20

POINT.

21

THE COURT:

22

ALL RIGHT.

003 IS ADMITTED

AND 005 IS ADMITTED.

23

(WHEREUPON, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBERS

24

3967.003 AND 3967.005, HAVING BEEN

25

PREVIOUSLY MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION,

2436

1

WERE ADMITTED INTO EVIDENCE.)

2

MR. JOHNSON:

3

THE WITNESS.

4
5

YOUR HONOR, I PASS

NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.

THE COURT:

OKAY.

THE TIME IS 10:56.

GO

AHEAD.

6
7

OKAY.

MR. LEE:
THEIR WAY.

8

YOUR HONOR, THE BINDERS ARE ON

MAY I PROCEED, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT:

9

GO AHEAD.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

10

BY MR. LEE:

11

Q

GOOD MORNING, DR. YANG.

12

GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

13

DR. YANG, YOU TESTIFIED ABOUT THREE

14

PATENTS, THE '460; CORRECT?

15

A

YES.

16

Q

THE '893; CORRECT?

17

A

YES.

18

Q

THE '711; CORRECT?

19

A

YES.

20

Q

I'M GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT EACH OF THEM

21

INDIVIDUALLY, BUT LET'S SEE IF WE CAN AGREE UPON A

22

FEW THINGS THAT ARE TRUE FOR ALL THREE OF THESE

23

PATENTS.

24

A

OKAY.

25

Q

FIRST, THERE ARE SIX NAMED INVENTORS ON ALL

OKAY?

2530

1

DESIGNER.

2
3

THE INTERPRETER:

THAT IS CORRECT, YOUR

HONOR.

4

JUROR:

OKAY.

5

THE COURT:

6

JUROR:

7

THE COURT:

8

OKAY.

9

MR. QUINN:

ANY OTHER THINGS?

NOT AT THIS TIME.
OKAY.

IT'S 1:36.

ALL RIGHT.
GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

10

Q

11

WITNESSES ABOUT HOW HARD THEY WORKED TO BRING THE

12

IPHONE TO MARKET.

13

MS. WANG, WE'VE HEARD TESTIMONY FROM APPLE

DID YOU -- WOULD YOU TELL US WHAT IT WAS

14

LIKE WORKING ON THE GALAXY PHONE, THE DESIGN

15

ASPECTS FOR THE USER EXPERIENCE THAT YOU WORKED ON?

16

A

17

TOUGH TO WORK AT AND IN KOREA.

18

WORKING TYPE OF COMPANY.

19

DESIGNING GALAXY SI, WE HAD PEOPLE FROM SEOUL AND

20

ALSO FROM SUWON, AND ALSO FROM GUMI.

21

FROM SUWON, THERE WERE HUNDREDS OF DEVELOPERS, AND

22

ALSO PEOPLE FROM GUMI, THERE WERE MULTIPLE OF TENS

23

WHO WERE INVOLVED IN VERIFICATIONS.

24
25

YES, I CAN.

SAMSUNG IS A COMPANY THAT'S VERY
IT'S A VERY HARD

ANYWAY, WHEN WE WERE

THE PEOPLE

SO WITH ALL THOSE PEOPLE COMING FROM
DIFFERENT PLACES.

THERE WAS AT ONE POINT WHERE WE

2531

1

HAD ALL COME TOGETHER AND WORKED TOGETHER AS A TEAM

2

FOR ABOUT THREE MONTHS AND DURING THAT TIME PERIOD

3

OF THREE MONTHS, MY RECOLLECTION WOULD BE THAT I

4

SLEPT PERHAPS TWO HOURS OR THREE HOURS A NIGHT.

5

THAT WAS ABOUT IT.

6

AND ALSO DURING THAT TIME PERIOD, I

7

ACTUALLY ENCOUNTERED SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY

8

DIFFICULT FOR ME.

9

TO A NEWBORN, AND I WAS FEEDING MOTHER'S MILK TO

BACK THEN I HAD JUST GIVEN BIRTH

10

THE BABY.

11

BABY SO MUCH, I HAD TO SAVE THE BREAST MILK.

12

BUT SINCE I WASN'T ABLE TO BE WITH THE

BUT IT JUST HAPPENED THAT I WASN'T ABLE

13

TO DO THAT ON A CONSISTENT BASIS.

14

RECOLLECTION WAS THAT THE BREAST FEEDING HAD TO

15

COME TO A STOP BECAUSE I HAD -- MY BODY WOULD NOT

16

GIVE MILK ANY MORE.

17

Q

18

THE ICONS, THAT MENU PAGE, WAS THAT A VERY INTENSE

19

PERIOD OF HARD WORK FOR YOU?

20

A

THAT'S CORRECT.

21

Q

LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME -- LET'S TALK ABOUT

22

ICONS AND ICON DESIGN.

23

SO MY

SO IT WAS A DEVELOPING, THE USER INTERFACE,

THOSE WERE DIFFICULT TIMES.

WHAT FACTORS DO YOU CONSIDER MOST

24

IMPORTANT IN DESIGNING AN EFFECTIVE ICON?

25

A

THERE ARE A FEW THINGS THAT'S IMPORTANT WHEN

2532

1

IT COMES TO DESIGNING AN ICON.

2

THAT COMES TO MIND IS THAT WHEN A USER IS LOOKING

3

AT AN ICON, THE USER SHOULD BE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE IT

4

AS SUCH RIGHT AWAY.

5

THE FIRST THING

AND, SECONDLY, THE COLOR AND THE SHAPE

6

ARE ALSO IMPORTANT IN THAT THEY SHOULD BE GOOD OR

7

PRETTY TO LOOK AT.

8

AND ALSO, EASILY -- EASY TO GRASP.

9

THIRDLY, IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT HAS

10

TO BE EASILY MEMORIZED OR MEMORABLE.

11

Q

12

THERE A CORRECTION?

13

AND WHEN YOU'RE DESIGNING -- I'M SORRY.

THE INTERPRETER:

NO, YOUR HONOR.

IS

NO,

14

SIR.

15

BY MR. QUINN:

16

Q

17

THAT HAVE TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT WHEN YOU DESIGN

18

AN ICON THAT'S GOING TO BE USED ON A TOUCHSCREEN?

19

A

20

IT HAS TO BE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OR A CERTAIN PART OF

21

THE SCREEN THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR THE TOUCHING TO

22

TAKE PLACE.

23

ARE THERE ADDITIONAL SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS

YES, OF COURSE.

WHEN IT COMES TO TOUCHSCREEN,

AND SO THERE HAS TO BE A CERTAIN SIZE,

24

SHALL WE SAY, AND ALSO THERE HAS TO BE A VIVID

25

COLOR THAT IS AVAILABLE FOR THE USER SO THE USER

2533

1

WILL BE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE THE AREA AND USE THEIR

2

FINGER TO TOUCH.

3

Q

4

TIME TO GO THROUGH VERY MANY OF THEM, BUT IF WE

5

COULD PUT UP, YOUR HONOR, DEMONSTRATIVE 3972.012,

6

3972.012, THE MENU SCREEN FOR THE GALAXY S, AND

7

LET'S JUST BEGIN WITH THAT PHONE ICON IN THE LOWER

8

LEFT.

9

LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT AN ICON.

WE DON'T HAVE

ARE YOU THE ONE THAT SELECTED THIS ICON

10

FOR USE ON THE GALAXY PHONE?

11

A

YES, THAT IS CORRECT.

12

Q

WHY DID YOU CHOOSE THIS ONE?

13
14

MR. JACOBS:
PRIOR DISCUSSION.

YOUR HONOR, OBJECTION.

YOU WILL SEE AT PAGE 18.

15

THE COURT:

16

GO AHEAD.

17

THE WITNESS:

OVERRULED.

WELL, I DESIGNED IT AS SUCH

18

BECAUSE IT'S A PHONE, SO I DESIGNED IT AS A PHONE.

19

THE SAME GOES WITH THE CLOCK, AND ALSO THE CAMERA.

20

BY MR. QUINN:

21

Q

22

EXPERIMENTED WITH OTHER ICONS FOR PHONE ON

23

TELEPHONES?

24

A

YES, WE HAVE.

25

Q

AND WHAT OTHER ICONS HAVE YOU USED FOR PHONES

HAVE YOU, IN THE PAST, HAS SAMSUNG

2534

1

AND WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THEM?

2

A

3

DIFFERENT ICONS AND THERE WERE EVEN CERTAIN

4

DIRECTIVES COMING FROM UP ABOVE TELLING US TO COME

5

UP WITH SOMETHING OF A DESIGN THAT'S MORE

6

SOPHISTICATED, SOMETHING THAT LOOKS MORE LIKE A

7

SMARTPHONE.

YES.

8

WELL, WE HAVE TRIED QUITE A FEW

SO WE TRIED DIFFERENT ICONS.

FOR

9

EXAMPLE, WE TRIED AN ICON THAT LOOKED LIKE A CELL

10

PHONE WITH AN ANTENNA, AND THEN WE ALSO TRIED AN

11

ICON THAT LOOKED MORE LIKE A SMARTPHONE.

12

BUT WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT THE PEOPLE

13

WOULD ACTUALLY MISTAKE THESE ICONS.

14

THOUGHT THIS WAS A GAME OR MAYBE A PDA OR EVEN A

15

CALCULATOR.

16

Q

17

OF MA BELL, WE'VE HEARD IT CALLED A MA BELL, I

18

DON'T KNOW IF THAT TRANSLATES INTO KOREAN, ICON ON

19

PHONES.

SO WE HAD SOME PROBLEMS.

HOW LONG HAS SAMSUNG USED THIS PARTICULAR TYPE

20
21

MR. JACOBS:
LEADING.

22

SOME PEOPLE

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

HE'S GIVING THE WITNESS A NAME FOR THIS.
THE COURT:

23

BY MR. QUINN:

25

Q

SUSTAINED.

THAT'S STRICKEN.

24

SUSTAINED.

DO YOU HAVE A NAME THAT YOU USE FOR THIS

2535

1

PARTICULAR TYPE OF ICON FOR A PHONE?

2

A

3

BELL.

YEAH.

IN OUR DESIGN TEAM, WE CALLED IT A MA

4

THE INTERPRETER:

5

THE WITNESS:

YOUR HONOR, CORRECTION.

IN OUR DESIGN TEAM, WE

6

CALLED IT A DUMBBELL ICON.

7

BY MR. QUINN:

8

Q

9

STYLE ICON ON THE PHONES?

AND HOW LONG HAS SAMSUNG USED THIS DUMBBELL

10

THE INTERPRETER:

11

WITNESS REPEAT HER ANSWER?

12

THE COURT:

13

THE WITNESS:

YOUR HONOR, MAY THE

PLEASE.
THAT ICON WAS IN USE EVEN

14

BEFORE I HAD JOINED THE COMPANY IN 2002.

15

WAS USED BY SAMSUNG.

16

SHAPE HAD BEEN USED IN SAMSUNG EVEN PRIOR TO 2002.

17

BY MR. QUINN:

18

Q

19

GREEN HAVE ANY SIGNIFICANCE FROM A DESIGN

20

STANDPOINT IN THIS ICON?

21

A

22

CONNOTATION TO IT, MEANING GO OR DO OR MAKE THE

23

CALL.

24
25

I'M SAYING THAT THE DUMBBELL

AND IT'S GREEN, OBVIOUSLY.

YES.

AND THIS

DOES THE COLOR

WELL, THE GREEN WOULD HAVE A POSITIVE

LIKEWISE, A RED COLOR WOULD BE SOMETHING
LIKE "DON'T" OR "STOP" TYPE OF INFORMATION.

2536

1

SO IN ORDER TO TELL THE USER TO MAKE THE

2

CALL OR ENABLE THE USER TO MAKE THE CALL, OF COURSE

3

IT HAS TO BE GREEN.

4

Q

5

THE CONCEPT OF A VISUAL LANGUAGE?

6

A

YES, I AM VERY WELL AWARE.

7

Q

WHAT DOES A VISUAL LANGUAGE, WHAT DOES THAT

8

MEAN TO YOU AS AN ICON DESIGNER?

9

A

AND ARE YOU FAMILIAR -- ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH

VISUAL LANGUAGE WOULD MEAN TELLING THE PERSON

10

USING A PICTURE BY LOOKING AT A PICTURE OR AN ART,

11

ONE WOULD BE ABLE TO DISTINCTIVELY TELL WHAT IT

12

MEANS.

13

FOR EXAMPLE, A RESTROOM SIGN FOR THAT

14

WOULD BE A VISUAL COMMUNICATION, EVEN AN AIRPORT, A

15

SIGN FOR THAT, THAT WOULD ALSO BE A VISUAL

16

COMMUNICATION.

17

Q

18

DEVELOPMENT OF A VISUAL LANGUAGE FOR ICONS?

AND IN THE SMARTPHONE INDUSTRY, DO YOU SEE THE

MR. JACOBS:

19
20

OBJECTION.

LEADING AN

EXPERT.

21

THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

22

BY MR. QUINN:

23

Q

24

A SIMILAR IMAGE OF A HANDSET FOR A TELEPHONE?

25

ARE THERE OTHER SMARTPHONE COMPANIES THAT USE

MR. JACOBS:

SAME OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

2537

1

THE COURT:

LAY A FOUNDATION, PLEASE.

2

BY MR. QUINN:

3

Q

4

WHAT ICONS OTHER COMPANIES ARE USING?

5

A

6

LOOK AT THE ICONS THAT COME UP ON THE WEBSITES OR

7

WEBS, AND ALSO AIRPORT SIGN SYSTEMS, THINGS LIKE

8

THAT.

9

THINGS.

AS PART OF YOUR JOB, DO YOU PAY ATTENTION TO

NOT ONLY THE OTHER COMPANIES, I WOULD ALSO

SO I WOULD PAY ATTENTION TO ALL THESE

10

Q

11

HANDSET IS TILTED AT AN ANGLE?

12

A

13

IS FOR A TOUCHSCREEN, SO THERE HAS TO BE A CERTAIN

14

AMOUNT OF AREA THAT IS ALLOTTED FOR THE USER TO

15

ACTUALLY ACCESS THIS TYPE OF FUNCTION.

16

AND WHY IS -- IS THERE A REASON WHY THE

WELL, AS I'VE INDICATED TO YOU EARLIER, THIS

SO IT COULD NOT BE SOMETHING THAT IS MORE

17

OF A HORIZONTAL TYPE OF BOX OR SOMETHING THAT'S

18

MORE VERTICAL BECAUSE TO DO SO WOULD MEAN THAT

19

THERE WOULD NOT BE EITHER ENOUGH SPACE OR TOO MUCH

20

SPACE FOR THE FINGER TOUCHING.

21

AND ALSO, IT'S LEANING A LITTLE BIT

22

BECAUSE THAT'S HOW PEOPLE MAKE PHONE CALLS.

WHEN

23

YOU MAKE A PHONE CALL AND SAY HELLO, WHEN YOU PICK

24

IT UP, YOU WOULD PICK IT UP AT AN ANGLE AND YOU

25

WOULD END THE PHONE CALL BY PLACING IT IN THIS

2585

1

A

SLIGHT CURVATURE.

2

Q

SLIGHT CURVATURE AT THE VERY TOP AND BOTTOM OF

3

THE FRONT FACE.

4

DOES THAT -- IS THERE ANY CURVATURE ON

5

THE FRONT FACE KR-547?

6

A

NO, IT'S ENTIRELY FLAT.

7

Q

OKAY.

8

WERE SEEING IS IRRELEVANT TO YOUR ANALYSIS?

9

THAT RIGHT?

AND, AGAIN, THIS SIDE VIEW HERE THAT WE

10

A

11

IS

IT IS IRRELEVANT AGAIN SINCE THE '677 AND '087

DO NOT CLAIM THE SIDE VIEWS.

12
13

MR. VERHOEVEN:

YOUR HONOR, MAY I

APPROACH THE WITNESS WITH A PHYSICAL EXHIBIT?

14

THE COURT:

PLEASE, GO AHEAD.

15

BY MR. VERHOEVEN:

16

Q

17

1093, WHICH ARE ALREADY IN EVIDENCE.

I'M GOING TO HAND YOU PHYSICAL EXHIBIT JX

18

MS. KREVANS:

MAY I SEE THIS, YOUR HONOR?

19

BY MR. VERHOEVEN:

20

Q

DO YOU RECOGNIZE JX 1093?

21

A

YES, THIS IS THE LG PRADA.

22

Q

LET'S PUT UP 3970.08, WHICH ARE PHOTOGRAPHS OF

23

THE PRADA SO THE JURY CAN SEE.

24

PHOTOGRAPHS OF WHAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR HAND, SIR?

25

A

YES.

ARE THOSE

2586

1

Q

DO YOU KNOW WHEN THE LG PRADA WAS DISCLOSED

2

PUBLICLY?

3

A

IT WAS DISCLOSED IN LATE 2006.

4

Q

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

5

A

I READ ARTICLES ON THE FACT THAT --

6
7

MS. KREVANS:

IS BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THE REPORT.

8
9
10

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, THIS

THE COURT:

CAN YOU GIVE ME THE PARAGRAPH

NUMBER OR THE PAGE NUMBER?

I HAVE HIS REPORT IN

FRONT OF ME.

11

MR. VERHOEVEN:

12

MS. KREVANS:

AT PAGE 60, PARAGRAPH 2.
PAGE 60, PARAGRAPH 2, YOUR

13

HONOR, WAS STRUCK.

AND IN ADDITION, IT IS NOT --

14

IT DOES NOT RELATE TO ANY OF THE EVIDENCE THAT THE

15

WITNESS JUST CITED.
THE COURT:

16

LET ME SEE YOUR PAGE 60,

17

PARAGRAPH 2, PLEASE, BECAUSE I HAVE THE OPENING

18

EXPERT REPORT.

19

REBUTTAL?

20

WHAT ARE YOU ALL REFERRING TO?

MS. KREVANS:

I THINK THAT MR. SHERMAN

21

GAVE ONLY ONE REPORT, YOUR HONOR, ON THE TOPIC OF

22

INVALIDITY.

23
24
25

THE COURT:

OH, I HAVE THIS.

MINE DOESN'T HAVE NUMBERED PARAGRAPHS.
(PAUSE IN PROCEEDINGS.)

I'M SORRY.

2587

1
2

THE COURT:
DATES OF THE --

3
4

MR. VERHOEVEN:

THE COURT:

-- DEVICE.

OKAY.

I SEE IT.

GO AHEAD.

7

MR. VERHOEVEN:

8

MS. KREVANS:

9

YOUR HONOR, IF I COULD

APPROACH.

5
6

I DON'T SEE HERE ABOUT THE

THANK YOU.
YOUR HONOR, I DIDN'T OBJECT

WHEN HE ASKED HIM IF HE THOUGHT HE KNEW WHEN IT WAS

10

RELEASED.

11

OBJECTED TO, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE ANSWER ON YOUR

12

LIVE NOTE, YOU WILL SEE WHY, BECAUSE WHAT THE

13

WITNESS WAS TRYING TO SAY IS NOT IN THIS DOCUMENT.

14
15

IT WAS THE SUBSEQUENT QUESTION THAT I

THE COURT:

THAT IS CORRECT.

ALL RIGHT.

WHY DON'T YOU --

16

MR. VERHOEVEN:

17

THE COURT:

18

MR. VERHOEVEN:

YOUR HONOR, HE --

IT'S ALSO HEARSAY, RIGHT?
I'M TOLD THAT HE CITES

19

ARTICLES TO THIS EFFECT IN THE MATERIALS THAT ARE

20

CITED IN THE REPORT.

21

THE COURT:

22

MS. KREVANS:

WELL, IT'S NOT ON PAGE 60.
AND THEY'RE NOT IN

23

EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR, AND THEY WERE STRUCK BY A

24

PRIOR RULING OF THIS COURT.

25

THE COURT:

ANYWAY, HE CAN CERTAINLY SAY

2588

1

WHEN HE THOUGHT IT WAS RELEASED.

2

MR. VERHOEVEN:

OKAY.

LET'S DO THAT IN

3

THE INTEREST OF TIME.

4

Q

5

WAS DISCLOSED PUBLICLY?

6

A

LATE 2006.

7

Q

AND IS LATE 2006 BEFORE OR AFTER THE FILING

8

DATES OF THE '087 AND '677 PATENTS?

9

A

BEFORE.

10

Q

AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE PRADA, LG PRADA THAT

11

WE HAVE UP ON THE SCREEN HERE?

12

A

13

HAS OVERALL RECTANGULAR SHAPE.

14

ROUNDED CORNERS AND COMPLETELY FLAT FRONT SURFACE,

15

TRANSPARENT ONE.

SURE.

SO THIS IS THE MOBILE HANDSET AND IT
IT HAS EVENLY

THERE IS A LARGE DISPLAY WHICH IS

16
17

WHAT'S YOUR OPINION AS TO WHEN THE LG PRADA

CENTERED ON THE FRONT FACE.

18

IT HAS LOZENGE SHAPED EARPIECE SLOT AND A

19

COMPLETELY FLAT FRONT SURFACE.

20

Q

SO ONE OF THE DIFFERENCES --

21

A

AND IT'S BLACK, SORRY.

22

Q

SO ONE OF THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE '677

23

PATENT AND THE '087 PATENT IS THAT THE '677 PATENT

24

IS BLACK; IS THAT RIGHT?

25

A

CORRECT.

OBVIOUSLY.

2589

1

Q

AND THE LG PRADA IS BLACK AS WELL; IS THAT

2

RIGHT?

3

A

CORRECT.

4

Q

I'LL DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO DX 728 IN YOUR

5

BINDER.

THIS IS IN EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR.

6

SO CAN WE GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE?

7

DID YOU CONSIDER JAPANESE DESIGN PATENT

8

'383 AS PART OF YOUR PRIOR ART ANALYSIS?

9

A

YES, I DID.

10

Q

AND I'M GOING TO REFER TO THIS DESIGN PATENT

11

AS JP'383; OKAY?

12

A

YES.

13

Q

AND WHAT DOES JP'383 SHOW ITSELF?

14

A

IT SHOWS A PORTABLE INFORMATION TERMINAL.

15

DEVICE IS, AGAIN -- THIS IS ACTUALLY COMPOSE OF TWO

16

PIECES.

17

INTERNAL DEVICE.

18

RECTANGULAR SHAPE WITH EVENLY ROUNDED CORNERS.

19

HAS A CENTERED RECTANGULAR DISPLAY.

20

COMPLETELY FLAT, THE FRONT FACE IS COMPLETELY FLAT.

21

THE

THERE IS AN EXTERNAL COVER AND THERE IS AN
THE DEVICE HAS OVERALL
IT

IT IS

AND IT HAS A UNIFORM BEZEL SURROUNDING

22

THE FRONT FACE.

23

Q

24

OF THESE PRIOR ART REFERENCES AND PUT THEM ON THE

25

SCREEN TOGETHER WITH THE D'677 AND '087.

MR. FISHER, IF WE COULD TAKE THE FRONT VIEWS

2590

1

OKAY.

SO UP AT THE TOP HERE IS '677;

2

RIGHT?

3

A

CORRECT.

4

Q

AND THIS IS '087?

5

A

YES.

6

Q

AND THEN THESE ARE THE PIECES OF PRIOR ART

7

THAT YOU JUST WENT THROUGH THAT YOU CONSIDERED?

8

A

YES.

9

Q

IN YOUR OBVIOUSNESS ANALYSIS?

10

A

YES.

11

Q

IS THAT RIGHT?

12

A

YES.

13

Q

DID YOU REACH ANY CONCLUSION, IN ADDITION TO

14

YOUR OPINION ON THE JP'638, DID YOU REACH ANY OTHER

15

CONCLUSION ABOUT THE COMBINATION OF THESE

16

REFERENCES WHEN YOU FORMED YOUR OBVIOUSNESS

17

CONCLUSIONS?

18

A

19

YES, I DID.
MS. KREVANS:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

20

AGAIN, BEYOND THE SCOPE.

21

DISCUSSED BY THIS WITNESS IN ANY WAY IN CONNECTION

22

WITH THE '087 PATENT.

23
24
25

THE COURT:

THE PRADA WAS NOT

HE TESTIFIED ABOUT BOTH.
IS IT JUST PAGE 60 OR IS IT

SOMEWHERE ELSE AS WELL?
MR. VERHOEVEN:

THE PRADA IS UP THERE,

2591

1

YOUR HONOR, BECAUSE I'M GOING TO ASK ABOUT THE '677

2

PATENT, AS WELL AS THE '087.

3

GENERAL QUESTION AND THERE'S NOT --

4

THE COURT:

5

OVERRULED.

6

MR. VERHOEVEN:

I'VE JUST ASKED HIM A

GO AHEAD.

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

7

Q

DO YOU HAVE THE QUESTION IN MIND, SIR?

8

A

YES.

9

Q

CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE JURY, USING THESE

10

IMAGES, YOUR ANALYSIS AND YOUR OPINIONS WITH

11

RESPECT TO OBVIOUSNESS?

12

A

13

WITH THE THREE OTHER REFERENCES, IS RENDERING THE

14

'677 AND THE '087 OBVIOUS.

YES.

SO I FIND THAT THE '638, IN COMBINATION

15

AND LOOKING AT THE '638 --

16

MS. KREVANS:

YOUR HONOR, HE JUST

17

ELICITED THE EXACT OPINION HE SAID HE WASN'T GOING

18

TO ASK HIM ABOUT IN CONNECTION WITH USING THE PRADA

19

IN CONNECTION WITH THE '087.

20

MR. VERHOEVEN:

LET ME TRY IT THIS WAY,

21

YOUR HONOR.

22

Q

LOOKING AT THE '677 PATENT, DO YOU SEE THAT?

23

A

YES.

24

Q

AND THESE OTHER PRIOR ART REFERENCES TOGETHER,

25

WHICHEVER ONE YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT, CAN YOU TELL

1
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTERS

2
3
4
5
6

WE, THE UNDERSIGNED OFFICIAL COURT

7

REPORTERS OF THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR

8

THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA, 280 SOUTH

9

FIRST STREET, SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA, DO HEREBY

10
11

CERTIFY:
THAT THE FOREGOING TRANSCRIPT,

12

CERTIFICATE INCLUSIVE, CONSTITUTES A TRUE, FULL AND

13

CORRECT TRANSCRIPT OF OUR SHORTHAND NOTES TAKEN AS

14

SUCH OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS OF THE PROCEEDINGS

15

HEREINBEFORE ENTITLED AND REDUCED BY COMPUTER-AIDED

16

TRANSCRIPTION TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY.

17
18
19

/S/
_____________________________.
LEE-ANNE SHORTRIDGE, CSR, CRR
CERTIFICATE NUMBER 9595

20
21
22

/S/
______________________________
IRENE RODRIGUEZ, CSR, CRR
CERTIFICATE NUMBER 8074

23
24
25

DATED:

AUGUST 14, 2012